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 Women Pastors / Preachers....

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Ladyfire
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PostSubject: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:31 am

I had a wonderful discussion a few weeks ago with Sarah (AiAEcho93) about this topic and I had this discussion Saturday night with a friend of mine.

I would love to hear others views on this.

The reason for my interest is that my small church closed and merged with a larger church. The male minister they had there wasn't a good speaker and I did not enjoy his sermons so I stopped going. They now have a new minister, who is a female. I have not yet attended a service there yet with the female minister and based on the two talks I have had with my friends, I am very torn.


I have attached another reading I found on this but I challenge you all to voice your views on this topic.

Blessed be,

Lisa

Question: "Women pastors / preachers? What does the Bible say about women in ministry?"

Answer:
There is perhaps not a more debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors / preachers in ministry. As a result, it is very important to not view this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe that women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women - and there are men who believe that women can serve as preachers and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of Biblical interpretation.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created (1 Timothy 2:13) and the way in which sin entered the world (2 Timothy 2:14). God, through the Apostle Paul’s writing, restricts women from serving in roles of spiritual teaching authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority over men.

There are many "objections" to this view of women in ministry / women pastors. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education was a qualification for ministry, the majority of Jesus' disciples likely would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the Ephesian women from teaching (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, who was the pastor of the church in Ephesus). The city of Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, a false Greek / Roman goddess. Women were the authority in the worship of Artemis. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention Artemis worship as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

A third common objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 could refer to husbands and wives. However, the basic meaning of the words are men and women. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8-10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse Cool? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9-10)? Of course not. Verses 8-10 clearly refer to men and women in general, not only husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a switch to husbands and wives in verses 11-14.

Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women pastors / preachers is in relation to Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, Phoebe, etc. - women who held positions of leadership in the Bible. This objection fails to note some significant factors. In relation to Deborah, she was the only female judge amongst 13 male judges. In relation to Huldah, she was the only female prophet amongst dozens of male prophets mentioned in the Bible. Miriam's only connection to leadership was due to her being the sister of Moses and Aaron. The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel - hardly examples of godly female leadership.

In the Book of Acts, chapter 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla's name is mentioned first, likely indicating that she was more "prominent" in ministry than her husband. However, Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of God to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).

In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a "deaconess" instead of a "servant" - that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. "Able to teach" is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders / bishops / deacons are described as "husband of one wife," "a man whose children believe," and "men worthy of respect." In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders / bishops / deacons.

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the "reason" perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with "for" and gives the "cause" of what Paul stated in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because - "Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived." That is the reason. God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a "helper" for Adam. This order of Creation has universal application to humanity in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church. The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This leads some to believe that women should not teach because they are more easily deceived. That concept is debatable...but if women are more easily deceived, why should they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? That is not what the text says. Women are not to teach or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. As a result, God has given men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching and helps. Much of the ministry of the church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted to public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only to having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians chapter 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the Gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership – in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would include women serving as pastors / preachers. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with how God has gifted them.

_________________



I may not be perfect....but I am always ME!

The woman came from a man's rib. Not his feet to be walked on, not from his head to be superior but from the side to be equal, under the arm to be protected and next to the heart to be LOVED.
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PostSubject: Re: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:46 am

My thoughts on the subject are: yes, the bible does say things about women not holding authority in church and so on as you've laid out above. However, I don't believe that women can't hold a pastoral position in the church.

At my church, the Senior Pastor is male, but his wife is also a Pastor in the church and does teach on Sundays every now and then. Furthermore, she is (more or less) over all of the females in my church (following the G12 Vision, for further info you can message me XD ) and of course she is very well respected and is just an amazing woman of God.


But going back to the Biblical context. My thoughts side along with yes, what the Bible says is true concerning women being pastors/preachers and that they shouldn't be in it, but I think part of that is because of the cultural beliefs at the time. Afterall, a few traditions and how our culture now is structured differs quite a bit. I'd go on more, but I do have class in the morning XD


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PostSubject: Re: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:27 pm

cpowanab7 wrote:
My thoughts on the subject are: yes, the bible does say things about women not holding authority in church and so on as you've laid out above. However, I don't believe that women can't hold a pastoral position in the church.

But going back to the Biblical context. My thoughts side along with yes, what the Bible says is true concerning women being pastors/preachers and that they shouldn't be in it, but I think part of that is because of the cultural beliefs at the time. Afterall, a few traditions and how our culture now is structured differs quite a bit.

I don't want to sound rude at all, sir. But what you said above seems very contradictory. You said that the Bible does say that women being pastors / preachers isn't right... but then you say how it's still ok?? That's sort of like saying "Yeah, the Bible says it's wrong, but that was before times, and this is now. Therefore, it doesn't really apply today" Again, I don't want to sound rude, but that is just like saying that we should just ignore what the Bible says about it because the Bible was written so long ago and our culture has changed... So basically, my question for you is, Because the Bible was written long ago, is that a reason to ignore what it says because our culture has changed since then?? scratch

-Sarah
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PostSubject: Re: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:52 am

Alas, I did have a full response for you, Sarah, but my internet closed down

so I just wanted to let you know that I did respond to your question, I'm not ignoring it or anything



by tomorrow (hopefully) I'll have a post on here for you XD



sorry,
Dustin
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PostSubject: Re: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:17 am

LOL No prob. Take your time Smile

-Sarah
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PostSubject: Re: Women Pastors / Preachers....   Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:55 pm

not trying to rush you dustin, but i would like to see your reply before i leave for england on saturday Smile
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